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Title: Mired in Rolls... Initiative
Topic started: 02/12/15 10:42
Author: vorgrist
Total Replies: 9
Message:
Those of you who have played with me know that this is true: I CAN'T keep track of initiative... like at all! It's a handicap.

I've come to the conclusion that it's not me. Thread after thread on the interwebs discuss this topic, and it comes down to this: balancing the benefit of changing initiative on each combat round with the complexity of tracking changing initiative and dealing with the 7 to 20 additional rolls each round, then calling out init phases (which is where my handicap kicks in... I can never and I mean NEVER remember the phase we were just on.)

The most popular turn-based game system on the planet uses a single initiative roll for each combatant at the beginning of combat. Thereafter, INIT stays the same. I have never liked this, because slow players always go last. That is why I propose the following options (about which I would like some feedback). One will be adopted for the Friday Night Game (Whiteslaughter), to see how it plays out. If it does not, we'll change it. If it does, it will be adopted into the game system to replace the current initiative system. Here goes (in comment posts to follow):
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Replies:
02/12/15 13:01  - vorgrist

Option1: At the beginning of combat, each present character gets an init roll as does each like-SPD enemy. That roll is modified by INIT MOD and becomes their Initiative phase. NPC's get no roll, instead, their INIT MOD is their Initiative phase. Once Init phase has been determined it remains the combatant's Initiative phase until one of the following occurs:

1. A combatant elects to spend an entire FULL MOVE action or an entire FULL COMBAT action to re-roll their Initiative. NPC's can do the same thing. The sacrifice of FULL MOVE and FULL COMBAT actions can occur in the same combat round. This means that if the re-roll from a sacrificed move is unsatisfactory, the character can then sacrifice her FULL COMBAT action to roll it again. She is stuck with that Initiative phase until she elects to attempt to change it OR until some external effect forces a change in the character's SPD attribute. Re-rolling INIT cannot be performed as a last ditch action.

2. If a target's SPD is changed she must re-roll INIT. If a target is critically struck to Maim and fails the CON check she must re-roll INIT. If such a target has already completed her action for the combat round, the newly rolled Initiative takes effect on the next combat round, otherwise, the target assumes the newly rolled initiative in the current combat round. If the newly rolled Initiative phase has already passed, but the target has yet to act during that combat round, she gets to act on the next Initiative phase.


02/12/15 13:03  - vorgrist

Option2: At the beginning of combat the Initiative phase for all combatant's is equal to their INIT MOD. This remains the combatant's Initiative phase until one of the following occurs:

1. A combatant elects to spend an entire FULL MOVE action or an entire FULL COMBAT action to re-roll their Initiative. NPC's can do the same thing. The sacrifice of FULL MOVE and FULL COMBAT actions can occur in the same combat round. This means that if the re-roll from a sacrificed move is unsatisfactory, the character can then sacrifice her FULL COMBAT action to roll it again. She is stuck with that Initiative phase until she elects to attempt to change it OR until some external effect forces a change in the character's SPD attribute. Re-rolling INIT cannot be performed as a last ditch action.

2. If a target's SPD is changed she must re-roll INIT. If a target is critically struck to Maim and fails the CON check she must re-roll INIT. If such a target has already completed her action for the combat round, the newly rolled Initiative takes effect on the next combat round, otherwise, the target assumes the newly rolled initiative in the current combat round. If the newly rolled Initiative phase has already passed, but the target has yet to act during that combat round, she gets to act on the next Initiative phase.


02/12/15 13:07  - vorgrist

In Option1, the term "each like-SPD enemy" is meant to be "each collection of like-SPD enemies", ie. all enemies sharing the same INIT MOD are rolled as one. The GM may elect to roll for all enemies individually... IMHO, not the best idea. I think you get the idea.


02/13/15 08:23  - paleogeoff

On the surface option 1 seems doable and simple, but it's not too different from what we are doing now. Option 2 actually seems like the better option IMO because it eliminates a roll from the game and makes your initiative another action to choose in the game. I like the simplicity of removing the initiative roll, and I like the additional option for taking an action during combat to change your initiative.


03/09/15 06:37  - vorgrist

WOW! So, having played through our first combat using the new INIT system (Option 1), just wow! The speed at which combat moved was incredible. It may have been faster using the INIT tracker on Roll20 than it could have been tracking INIT unassisted on table top. I'm sold!

In fact, combat moved so quickly that there were a number of occasions where the players had trouble keeping up with the speed of round progression. A perspective on calling out INIT phases that I had not considered because I'm almost always the GM.

What was your experience?


03/09/15 07:52  - Nyx

I was very please with how the new system worked. We used option 1 with, IMHO, great success. The combat was flying. The only issue that came up was knowing when the beast(s)/combatant(s) go. This may give the party an advantage. The alternative would be for the GM to roll init for the NPCs each turn but I am unsure how much it really matters. If the GM were to hold the same init plan as option 1 to the NPCs, then we would know in one turn what init the NPCs have whether it is posted on Roll20 or not, taking us back to having the GM roll init every round for the NPCs. This may not slow the rounds too much since the party has their init rolls locked in. I think we will have to play with it to know for sure. I for one am really looking forward to the next game session!


03/12/15 12:14  - Johno

I agree that it seemed to move much faster. It also seemed easier for you to control. I do think it will put more emphasis on the Speed stat for everyone (not sure if that is good or bad). Would there be a way to increase init bonus through experience? I think a combat senses skill or something that can add to your init would take some of the pressure off of dumping into the Speed stat.

As far as adjusting your place by holding your action, I think it would be good because you are giving up 2 round to make sure you go first once. Im not sure what the advantage would be but it could be done.

I liked it and would like to see it explored more.


03/13/15 10:03  - vorgrist

I think we can try this:

Character A declares "Hold for Initiative" no action other than talking can be taken. Last Ditch Parry and Dive For Cover are allowed, but forfeit next round's action, and forfeit the Hold for Initiative. This effect last only for the next round, on that round the character is required to roll Init again.

The following round, all targets who declared Hold for Initiative go on the current highest plus their Init Mod. Ergo, if current high Init phase is 12 and Gallwind declares Hold For Initiative, on the next combat round, Gallwind will act on phase 15. After ha acts on 15, he will roll Init for next round and be placed in the turn order.


03/21/15 12:41  - Johno

Sorry just saw the reply. I like that option. How did it go last night?



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